Kicking a player out of my gaming group is something I’ve never had to do, but I’ve talked to folks who’ve done it (and had it done to them). It’s not a pleasant prospect, but it’s something that many GMs will have to address at some point in their GMing careers.
Have you ever had to kick out a player?
Unlike some of my other posts, this one has no connection to my current gaming situation — I’m fortunate enough to be gaming with a very good group. But it is something that comes up for a lot of GMs, and I don’t feel qualified to write a post on this topic since I’ve never done it myself.
So I’m turning this one over to the TT community — if you’ve ever had to kick someone out of your gaming group, tell us about it in the comments! I’m very interested to hear how it went, and I suspect a lot of other GMs will be as well.
As a starting point, here are 5 questions that seem like they would be useful to have answered:
- Why did you kick out this player?
- How did you go about it?
- Did you talk to them about it first?
- Was it the right decision?
- What did you learn from the experience?
Depending on what kind of responses this post gets, I may do a follow-up that compiles your tips on this topic into an advice post.
Update: That follow-up has now been posted: How to Kick Out a Player and Respect Yourself in the Morning compiles all of your tips into a simple 3-step process for GMs to follow. My thanks to everyone who shared their stories and advice about this topic!
Yep, it’s a very sad thing to do, but I felt I didn’t really had a choice. We were playing M&M and we all had a really good time. BUT then the player I ended up kicking out went to a message board and complained about my game. That didn’t really bother my, but he lied about the game. He lied about the “silly” opponents, the way I used the rules, my “silly” setting. etc.. After calling him out on it, he told me and my group that he tried to “steer” the talk on the board in a certain direction, by lying about my game. WTF! Obviously the people on the board (the atomic think tank) were pretty pissed too and kicked him out as well.
We had our own campaign message board, and it was there that I posted the “official” ” you’ve been booted” post.
Anyway, I did talk about it with my group first and they had my back. It was a really annoying experience and the first in my 20+ years of gaming. Was it the right decision? Well, for me it was. 😉
Over the last three years, I had to give the boot to two players.
The first time occured after a certain player kept annoying the group and the DM (me at the time) about how “strict” the Campaign is and how unflexible the DM is acting out.
After debating the issue and talking to the player on numerous occasions, I have decided to step down and give the DM seat to another player.
Apparently, the player still “complained” about the same issues and even addressed the fact that that I, as a DM were more flexible.
We had to lie to the player, telling him we’re disbanding and just kept on playing without him. None of us could confront him directly.
We took on a new player in his place, but after a few sessions with him, we came to the conclusion that he just wasn’t a team player and didn’t bother to roleplay with the rest of us on the same level so we had to tell him that things didn’t turn up the way we (the group) like it.
As I once wrote, it’s like having to fire one of your employees if it’s someone you’ve played with before, But what can one expect? If you come to a D&D game and want to have some fun, can you let a single player ruin it for the whole group?
Choosing your gaming group is not an easy task, sometimes it’s harder then coming up with the next campaign to run, but just like it, if you invest the time, you’ll end up having tons of fun.
I have had no problem with my gaming group in three years. Any time a problem arose we would talk about it and we would then fix it.
To tell the complete history I have always had a problem with my brother (17). Whenever he plays he wants to betray (assasin, steal, etc..) the rest of the group. Lately he has slowed down and he has started playing as a member of the team and not agains it. (He saw that betraying meant no invitation for him).
As DM. T. says it’s not easy to pick a good gaming group.
A sad tale with a happy ending.
We had a player who did not quite ‘fit-in’ with the group’s style. He was a metagamer, munchkin, and usually played evil PCs. He was even hostile to other players (in the guise of ‘just roleplaying’ his character).
Like most groups, ALL of the players were friends before they ever started gaming. To throw out a player could mean losing a friend. But if something was not done, the game would probably come to an end.
The whole group spoke to him about adjusting his style, and become more of a team player. But he liked playing that way, and was not about to change.
The player was asked to leave. The game play improved. But there was a void at the table (since the game itself is only half the fun – gathering with friends is why we play)
The group elected to bring him back and switch-up DMs. Hoping a new ‘style’ would refresh the group, and let the player know he had a second chance.
Everyone is happy, and the player has ‘toned down’ his style.
I have had to boot one player. After gaming with him for a year it became VERY apparent that he was not having fun and it was causing the rest of the group to not have fun. He did not take it well, and eventually petitioned to join again. Of course, before he did this he sent out a series of hateful, angry emails. This ended his relationship with the group and I have not had any regrets about booting him since.
1. Why did you kick out this player?
It was more like he removed himself from the game after having his final tantrum over how many hit dice a dog has.
2. How did you go about it?
I pushed for tabling the argument until later because he was interrupting the game but another player was antagonizing him which heightened the problem. Then when he stormed off, he made the decision for me and everyone else. Since he was (and maybe is) still my friend and co-worker, I wanted to have a talk with him while everyone else in the group was unified in kicking him out.
3. Did you talk to them about it first?
He didn’t really give me the opportunity. The next morning I received an e-mail with the definition of dog from the Internet (Webster or something) and a tirade I threw away. With that, I sided with the rest of the group of saying he was no longer welcome to our game/campaign and the dog incident was the final straw.
4. Was it the right decision?
Yes. I have never regretted it because he may be my friend but I had to sacrifice one to keep five players. It also removed him and brought to light how disruptive two players’ drinking had become (he used up half my energy with his backseat DMing).
5. What did you learn from the experience?
Friends don’t always make good players, especially when they have game lawyer tendencies (they know the letter of the game, not the spirit). We as a group, interview every new player before we let them in. We’ve even been turned down by one we really, really liked (so that cuts both ways).
Come March 2006, my gaming group will have been meeting almost every week for 10 years. There’s been a lot of turnover in that time (I’ve been the only consistent member the entire time), but we’ve never kicked anyone out.
Daniel – played from 1996 through 1998, when he joined the Marines. Then from 2003-2004.
Jake – played from 1996 through 1998, when he went to the late shift at work. Again 2000-2001. Started again in 2005 and is still playing.
Sean – played from 1997-1998, I think. Left when he moved out of state.
Hugh – played off and on from 1997-1999, I think, until his job situation changed.
Steve – played from 1997-1998, then moved out of state.
Angelo – played from 1998 (or 1999) until he moved out of town in late 2004.
Jason – played off and on from 1999 to 2002, when he took a job overseas. Sometimes GM-ed.
Jeremy – played off and on from 1999 to 2003, when he took a job overseas. Sometimes GM-ed.
Mike – Been playing since 1999, still in the group.
Duane – Played from 2000-2001, then went off to college.
Zac – played 2004 to early 2005, then took a new job that changed his schedule. GM-ed some.
Joe – Played in 2004, GM-ed a couple times, then took a new job.
Sam, Jeremy, Liz – all started in 2005, still playing. Sam has been GM-ing recent months.
There have been a few others who played once or twice and then never showed up again, and a few that would meet me for the typical pre-joining interview, and then never show up at a game.
Since about 1997, total membership in the group has hovered between 4 and 7. Usually, about the time someone leaves, another one or two show up.
All in all, we’ve mainly had people leave due to changes in their lives. Maybe we’ve been lucky, or maybe having a core membership that ranges from late 20’s to mid-30’s, and mostly married, helps keep everyone civil.
I guess I’m rambling…I’ll stop now. 😉
I don’t envy anyone who’s had to boot a member of a gaming group.
-David
Over the past few years, I’ve only had to tell two players that they were no longer welcome.
“SW†had an attitude problem. He felt that he was more important than anyone else, and didn’t have to follow any inconvenient rules. SW was consistently late, unprepared, and had a chip on his shoulder when it was brought up. When I started a new campaign (with a new group), everyone except SW was prepared; he made the same excuses he always did, and I was tired of it. Several days later, I called him – but only got his answering machine. I sent him a very professional-sounding email explaining the situation; to summarize: here’s the situation as I see it, here’s my decision, good luck finding another group. I informed the group (via email) that SW would not be playing any longer.
It was definitely the right decision. SW was the first player I felt the need to kick out. The next gaming session ran even more smoothly, and I didn’t have to put up with any more lame excuses. And it was liberating to know that I could kick someone out, and not have things fall apart.
I can post about the second one if you all wish. It’s a doozy.
I have never kicked a player out. Back in college, some of my players approached me about one player they were uncomfortable with. He was a little odd, but I didn’t really have a problem with him, so I said they would have to deal with it. I forget what ended up happening, but he did discontinue playing with us.
In my first Arcana Unearthed campaign, one player approached me about the young couple, particularly the husband. Since I was also a little shaky about him, I agreed to poll the other players. No one else responded, and the husband ended up shaping up (he had come in with the idea that his thief character could steal from the party – presumably a learned behavior from other campaigns, plenty of ribbing and a little pressure from the other players and he changed his ways – I still rib him about his roguish characters as being “he/she claims not to be a thief…”).
We had one really disruptive player in that campaign who basically came in with his first character and tried to sabotage the adventure. The PCs quickly tied him up and he was put off the boat at the next port. He created a new PC but only played a couple more sessions. Now here’s a kicker – he just e-mailed me today asking about games… and we wouldn’t mind another player. I think what I’ll do is invite him, but tell him upfront that coming in and trying to bust up things isn’t going to be acceptable, and also mention that he will be on a probationary period for the other players acceptance (which is basically something I intend to do from now on with players who join in the middle of the campaign). But I need to think about it for a bit…
Frank
1. Why did you kick out this player?
I have kicked a numkber of players out over the years. I has a rough and tumble group that used to play after the bars closed – they were bouncers, bartenders, cooks, etc. A very fun group, but a couple just got too wasted every time. I finally asked them to leave.
I had to ask another player to leave the group who the women in my group could not stand. I liked him as a player, but he was condescending to the women. I was so insensitive, I did not really notice, but once pointed out to me it started to annoy me. I had a sit down with the player. He actually got worse and I had to ask him to leave our group after almost three years. He cried – it was very rough.
A couple of years ago we had a lot of players leave town for work opportunities. I tried a couple of new players out some worked a couple were obviously not good fits. After a couple of sessions, I just told them politely they were not working in our group’s chemistry.
2. Was it the right decision?
Absolutely, I would do it again in every case. Never easy, but there is not enough gaming time in life to put up with players who do not fit in.
3. What did you learn from the experience?
It always is the best policy to be direct and forthright about the issue. A couple of the fellows I have kicked out over the years I still consider friends.
Many–many years ago we were playing a combination OD&D / AD&D hybred game. We had one classmate who wanted to join in.
He was a total twit. Insisted that since we had only been playing a few months and he had been playing for 2 years he knew what was right. Insisted we use house rules from another game he was in (we wouldn’t). Tried to dominate the game. Couldn’t (or wouldn’t) roleplay the position of a post without screwing it up.
The other players and myself (DM) concocted a death trap to kill off his character in a place where a new one couldn’t join in and then told him we’d let him know IF we ever needed him again. We never did, despite his repeatedly asking.
Reading all of your comments, a couple of things jump out at me:
1. Lots of new commenters — welcome to TT! 🙂
2. An overwhelming preference for direct confrontation over avoiding conflict.
Out of 11 comments (including multiple stories/comment), we have:
– 9 direct confrontation
– 2 avoiding conflict
– 3 never had to boot a player
So far, two pieces of advice seem to be pretty consistent in many of your comments: try talking to the player first, and confront the directly rather than avoiding the issue.
What else can GMs take away from your experiences to make kicking out a player easier for them, should they ever have to do it?
Siege72: I’d love to hear about your second experience with kicking out a player (the “doozy”).
One thing many of have to consider is that many folks who game tend to be a little more socially challenged. Such people often do not interact well with others on any level. You can see this fact in any hobby store or game convention.
I had a bad expereince when I moved to the Twin Cities. I met with a group and gamed with them for a bout a year before running a camapign. Suddenly it seemed I could do nothing correct. My house was considered too smelly, the snacks not abundant enough, my dog was a problem, I didn’t know the 3.0 rules well enough. I just stopped the campaign, I was done, tired, and sick of catering to people who just didn’t understand the way people interact as friends or fellow gamers.
It was tough but since the campaign was giving no pleasure it was something I had to do.
My current group is GREAT! We enjoy playing togther and often grill or or see movie together. Everyone is considerate of each other.
“What else can GMs take away from your experiences to make kicking out a player easier for them, should they ever have to do it?”
It’s never going to be very easy, unless the player in question is a complete jerk. Then it’s easy because you just don’t care. 🙂 So important thing is to keep in mind your word choice there–“easier”, not “easy”. As Einstein said, things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler. If you try too hard to make the process, “easy”–all you will do is complicate it.
I’ve had three kinds of boots, all but one multiple times. How you handle it well depends on the reason for the boot:
1. Boot was unnecessary and only got that far because people got their panties in a wad. Fortunately, this was high school, with all that entails–but the group was reconciled and no grudges.
2. The issues were all courtesy, outside the game, etc. Had a few people that simply refused to do the minimum necessary, which was already pretty lax. We’d let people show up for half the all-day session, come every third time, etc. That’s cool for a large group, where many of the players have family obligations. But they did have to let me know. After some subtle, and then not so subtle hints, I drew the line at using us as a fallback when nothing else fun materialized.
Solution was to just stop inviting them. I told the remaining players what I was doing and why. Also told them that they were free to explain why if asked by the old players, but that I would not volunteer. Since it took the former players over a year to even ask about it, and then only casually, I gathered they were not that committed. I still see them socially every few years, with no bad vibes.
3. Person simply didn’t work with the group. This one hurt. He was just fine with about half the group, fresh breathe of air, interested, etc. The other half of the group couldn’t stand him personally. I and another of my players played with him at a Con in two different games and had no issues. We figured slam dunk. That was my big, “there is such a thing as total group chemistry and you ignore that at your peril” moment. I had to tell him why.
Later, we had another guy that could have gone down this route at first (personality conflict though no fault of his). I judged this to be an issue with our current players, not the new one. So I put my foot down, and said make it work. We did. We wouldn’t trade him for gold, now. 🙂
OTOH, I read all these horror stories online where people put up with stuff that wouldn’t last two minutes at my house. Confrontation is hard, and sometimes not the best route. Being so totally afraid of confrontation that you get walked all over is another thing altogether.
My first Arcana Unearthed campaign had problems with the “we’ll play in your game if nothing else is more exciting” type players. Fortunately after Christmas (we had started right around Labor Day) they more formally dropped out (I think two of them unsubscribed from my Yahoo group – on the other hand, I still have some players I haven’t seen in ages subscribed to the group – sometimes I think I should just unsubscribe them).
Playing on a weeknight has actually been a blessing. Since I can make it 90% of the time, and we play every week, it’s easy to see who just isn’t committed, and deal with it if it becomes a problem (one player admitted that he couldn’t commit the time, another player just stopped showing up). Other than those players, we have had 2 or 3 sessions with a missing player.
One thing that perhaps is helpful to do is consider why you might ask a player to leave, and then consider how to handle it:
1. Player steals from you or another player, assaults you or another player, or otherwise commits a crime. I would order the player out of the house immediately and if the infraction was at all serious, call the cops. I’d immediately unsubscribe them from my Yahoo group. If they showed up again, I’d have to talk to the police about getting a restraining order. Hopefully this sort of thing will never happen.
2. A player is just plain disruptive. I’d talk to them to try and find out what the cause of the disruption is. If an obvious path to non-disruptive play didn’t present itself, I’d have to ask the player to leave. Again, I’d unsubscribe the player from the Yahoo list.
3. A player misses a lot of sessions, doesn’t notify us in advance (where reasonable – you don’t have to know a week ahead that you’re going to be sick or have a motorcycle accident, you should know your mom will be visiting), etc. I’d talk to the player about their commitment, and remind them that my invitation specified we play (almost) every week and that I expected players who would be available at (almost) every session. Hopefully the player would admit their commitment is low. If the player was really cool, I’d offer to let them drop in with notice and I’d let them run an NPC or something (there are players I’d let do this, we had one such player in my RuneQuest game who even had his own PC – who of course was mostly an NPC).
4. The other players have an issue with a player. I’d ask them to resolve it, only bringing me in as a mediator if absolutely necessary. I don’t think it’s fair to lay the burden of social coordinator on the GM.
5. A player who attends regularly, but doesn’t participate, but isn’t exactly disruptive. Ok, here I’m sort of stumped. Right now, we have the wife of the young couple who really barely participates. I don’t understand her disability well enough to know if she is participating to the best of her ability and again, I’m not sure I signed up to that role as GM. A player who was always distracting himself would be easier to deal with (I did have to take a book away from the 10 year old kid in my game once – I don’t mind players picking up something to read when they’re not involved, but having to remind them it’s their turn again in melee is a bit too much).
Frank
I tend to be someone who avoids dealing with issues. It does make me wonder why I have had so few issues. Perhaps it’s because while I don’t confront issues, I still deal with them. I have dealt with cheaters by being ruthless and not giving an inch. I have dealt with disruptive play again by being ruthless. When the player came in and tried to sabotage the mission, I made him make disarm device checks (he was trying to fiddle with somewhat of a device), and made him make sneak checks, and gave the PCs spot and listen checks. And the NPC captain of the ship totally supported the rest of the PCs. When the young husband tried to steal from the party, I let the other players teach him that wasn’t the way we played. And maybe that’s the trick, being firm right from the start, while keeping it friendly at the start.
The young wife is learning disabled. The husband has mentioned it as neural pathway disorder, but the last time I tried to google that I got no hits. She also often seems to be pretty low energy, but I suspect that is due to drugs (they have mentioned making sure she takes her medication).
Frank
Visualizing, planning how to handle different situations is not a bad idea, I think. It’d make the moment less awkward.
Face it, it’s awkward, regardless how many are in agreement, regardless how disruptive a player is.
I had a group of five plus two ‘floaters’–casual players who would come or not (and if not, I would ‘ghost’ their characters or make them wander off or fall down the well or sleep off a drunk or whatever). Well, two of the players were a couple, and while she (we’ll call her Cheryl) was a breath of fresh air, he (we’ll call him Tom) was the problem.
Tom was argumentative, with me and with other players, about every piddly detail that could conceivably interact with his character. He was a munchkin, and prone to literal pouting when his PC didn’t get the “coolest” object out of the treasure pile, or when he failed a skill check, or when his attack was foiled.
More than this, he took out his real-world aggressions on characters in-game. Typically, Cheryl was the brunt of it. His PC would magically silence hers to keep Cheryl from speaking in-character, he would evince glee when his character successfully bullied hers, and his PC would repeatedly threaten hers. Eventually, one of my players made a character to be a sort of adopted bodyguard for Cheryl’s PC, threatening Tom’s PC with a hammer the size of an anvil if he should so much as make her PC -frown-.
That worked for a while. In the end, though, Tom was still Tom, whining when he didn’t get his way or when I fairly ruled against him, still sabotaging other characters (again, particularly Cheryl’s, despite his character’s two near-death experiences) and being plain disruptive.
Finally, in the heat of battle, he was hit for some niggling amount of damage, and when I wouldn’t reconsider the attack’s hit result after he remembered an AC adjustment he had forgotten, he spat something, threw his d20 across the room and stood up with his fists clenched. I looked up at him mildly, and (having discussed his behavior at length with a couple other core members of the group) asked him if he needed to go outside to cool off a bit. He stormed out, and a few minutes later, after a weird “Daddy just hit Mommy at the dinner table” sort of silence, I followed.
He and I took a walk (the rest of the group was firing up the PlayStation), and I laid it all out. I told him point-blank what about his behavior was unacceptable and why, told him where the line was now being drawn, and I gave him a choice–shape up or get the hell out. I told him I was not sacrificing my group for his sophomoric insecurities, and that he had to make his decision now, tonight.
Well, he tried. He attempted to look like he tried, at any rate. He lasted almost an hour after we returned and got things rolling again. But then he whined.
Everybody went dead silent. He looked around them, then at me, and I pointed at the door. He said something like, “If I leave, I’m not coming back.” I nodded and said that that was the general idea. He stormed off, and tried to guilt Cheryl into leaving with him.
Happily, she didn’t. She is still part of our core group, while he finds something else to do with his time. It was the right decision, booting him. Play goes much more smoothly, we all laugh more, and more importantly, we all realized Tom’s presence in the game was toxic because none of us (except Cheryl, and not even her, mostly) liked him as a person.
Lesson hard-learned.
(Sorry for the length.) I’ve was a part of several groups a few years ago that were strife filled; often we did nothing. One of the players, Dus, would sideline everything to snatch the spotlight… and he wasn’t good about sharing.
In two campaigns we put up with it for months, before various players manuvered their PCs to eliminate his character in one of the two campaigns. He shrugged and made up a new character, intended to match the group better… but it was rough despite his efforts. Fortunately, he left town pretty quickly thereafter.
Social problems with another player marred a later campaign; W was fine on a character level, but his real life difficulties increasingly irritated some of the players. It got to the point where people would bitch about him regularly (sometimes in his presence)– not a good situation. Particuarly since I’m pretty easy-going, so I wasn’t on the toss him out bandwagon. Finally the GM’s irritation with him in real life grew great enough that he personally asked him to leave– and W did.
A later campaign had some serious RL conflicts again; this one I was running. B & K were in conflict (carried over from previous games) and a late arrival (M) had a serious problem with another player. The player level conflict errupted into PC conflict (with the flimsiest of provocations)– after a half-dozen sessions, the campaign (and group) were destroyed. When a successor started, many of the disruptive people simply weren’t invited.
There’s not much glory in my/our experiences; a lot of putting up with people because they’re real life friends of someone. The biggest lesson I learned was that player level conflicts cannot be solved in game– it’s hopeless to try. I’ve committed to player level discussion early to head things off before everyone’s fun is spoiled.
Xaos Bob: I like your suggestion about visualizing/running through scenarios before sitting down with the player.
I do that kind of thing for work, and it’s very helpful.
Scott: Good point about RL problems not always being able to be sidelined for games. (And no need to apologize about length! This post seems to have hit a nerve for a lot of GMs.)
Martin, my brother form another mother, you got 100%. Our games attract people who often are not invited else where. Our games also attract people who are more open to others despite politics, religion, race, gender, age, or sexual preference.
Things get ugly when players have relationships/ friendships out side of game. Playing the game seems to be a continuation of the friendship. The game is the extention of friendship.
In 1989 I started my first Forgotten Realms Campaign. In 1999 I closed it down. There were some personalities that would just not get along. I spent alot of time working with people, trying to get them to work with each other but it finally came down to the fact that as a DM, I was no longer having fun. And I was told by a couple of players that they refused to change for the betterment of the game. So I closed the campaign and told everyone I would be starting up a new one the next year and would invite those that I felt could work well together. I also added some new players that I interviewed extensivly before inviting them in. I still let the other players have veto options if it wasn’t working. Fortunately from past experience the group was able to set forth expectations from the get-go and it all turned out great.
It was a hard thing to do but it paid off in the end. Since 2000 my campaign has been going very well and everyone at the table is having a great time. The roll playing is at such a high level that the dialog between characters is just brilliant in action. I forget that my friends are at the table and not the adventuring party!
My advice, try to solve the situation in as open and honest a manner as possible. If someone isn’t up to working with others or always drags your game down despite discusions to correct it, let them go. You’ll be happy you did and they might find another group that accomodates their style of play.
Been running a 3.x campaign for 5 years now. Had to boot 1 player.
This player, I have been playing with since 1995.
• Why did you kick out this player?
Disruptive to the overall fun of group but always used the excuse, “It’s just a game and I’m having fun!”
To him, fun = his character being chaotic stupid and doing really random things to see what I would do (as DM) in reaction.
For example:
attack a NPC rescuer after said rescuer handed him a dagger – “I’m chaotic neutral!”
Party has all agreed to retreat after the item was retrieved and there is no reason to keep attacking the flood of minions – “No, I keep attacking!”
Argues with me over the “logic” of his ranger/rogue not being bale to make wondrous magic items and magical bows. He does not have the prereqs. I turn out to be unimaginative and to “restrictive” in his opinion.
ALWAYS attacked the town guard or Inn Keeper and complained when his character was arrested or punished for breaking the law – “but… I’m just following my alignment!”
Would state at every session how expensive the 3.0 PHB was and how he just couldn’t afford it… then woop out $30 worth of snacks from 7-11 exclaiming, “WOW, this stuff cost me $30!!”
• How did you go about it?
We were playing in an unrelated one-shot when he pulled one of his chaotic stupid tricks. Some of his fellow players were there too as was I, a player and not DMing. The fun of the rest of the group was compromised (fun to us = completing the mission goals given us) and a few of the players were angered. He started to argue with us and I stepped in.
I told him, “Y’know? I just realized you are not a very good gamer. Seriously dude… have you ever noticed that every session we’ve been in together devolves into you defending your actions?”
That is all I remember saying but much more was said.
The rest of the players just stopped communicating with him after he had sent us e-mails the next day “evaluating” or unimaginative play styles.
I replied to his e-mail with:
“I have decided that you do not fit well with us as a gaming group.” and then I gave him links to other gaming groups that he may fit in well with.
• Did you talk to them about it first?
Yes, but it turned into name-calling and accusations.
• Was it the right decision?
Yes. I now, for the last 3 years, have an excellent gaming group comprised of the last original 3 members and 6 more new members in 2 campaigns.
• What did you learn from the experience?
Take action and evolve your game to the best of your ability.
Let the players roam and take control too – but within the scope of the rules for your chosen system!
aside: I just learned through some mutual friends that this player just discovered that we were still together and playing. His comment was, “Wow, I thought they disbanded!”
Very interesting posts/thread. Luckily, I play with a rock solid group of guys in there 30s, so most of the juvenile social issues are long gone. However this was not always the case.
I have a confession of sorts. I used to have the priviledge of working at a computer game company, Microprose software (Civilization, Master or Orion, Xcom, etc). I don’t like to name drop, so I’ve never mentioned it before (check my posts 🙂 ). Anyhow, the reason I mention it now is that it provided me with a “pool” of many types of gamers, both paper and electronic. MPS is sadly long gone, but most of the D&D group I play with were once employees that I spent very long hours working with. This was also true “back then”, but with a more indiscriminate selection of players. It is also important to note that the age was “low 20’s” (meaning: the QA dept). So, sometimes a personal animus would creep into the game and result in confrontations. Luckily, in alomst every case I was the observer (except once, I admit) and saw some interesting things unfold.
In one case, there was a gem that acted like “The One Ring” to whomever possed it. The party theif was it’s bearer and became more and more greedy (then he already was) and egotistical. The players began to hate him in real life but the DM thought it was excellent role-playing. The defining moment went as such: The key to this evil gem was that it only effected those who desired it. The theif got killed and the gem was taken from him. They raised the theif and the first thing he said was “I want the gem”. The other players demanded that he be kicked out of the game in a “Us or Him” ultimatum. The DM captiulated very reluctantly and ended the game the next session by having the bad guy suddenly show up for the final battle. He regrets the outcome to this day.
In another situation, there was a co-worker that was very socially challenged. He was hostile, egotistical, and being a lowest ranked supervisor, liked to boss the “workers” around. As proof, I would offer up that he had the few co-workers he hadn’t alienated as stand-ins at his wedding for ‘best man’ etc since he lacked friends for this role. For some reason he ended up in a game and this attitude carried over into the game. Naturally, he was an assasin (2nd Ed D&D) and because of the questionable mechanics of that class had the ability to kill someone in one hit. He used this as a wedge to bully the other characters around. Same DM with the same result: campaign was fast forwarded to the end and he was never invited to play again.
Another player would always pick the most impossibly broken mechanics and play the most outrageously arrogant personalities. In short, a racist Bladesinger elf. It got so bad that it was a running joke: “So, which Nazi-Elf is he playing this time?”. Again: simply uninvited over time.
Ok, enough story telling. The short form is, that the way it has been dealt with, in my opinion, is by far the least effective. While the player’s feelings are spared, the campaign is basically sacrificed to do so and another arises without the “bad” player. Not only that, but no “insight” was ever passed unto the offending player.
Btw, I wanted to add one more that just struck me, that happened just last week. Now, I know this is somewhat off-track, but indulge me a moment to draw the paraelle.
I play World of Warcraft, yes, its true. I am in a small guild of real-life friends, all adults. Some have known each other for many years. 1 Night a week is game night, much like D&D, and the members would form up to go to one of the high-level dungeons, which could take a few hours to complete, much like D&D. Well, two of the members were husband and wife (I only knew them via association to others). A pattern developed where around 10:30 the wife would go “I have to go, work is tomorrow. Cya!”, regardless of the end boss being right around the corner. Naturally her husband (the Warrior who played poorly but was tolerated being a friend) would go “me too!” and he was gone, effectively ending the adventure. Eventually, things erupted on the forums and one player pushed just the right buttons to cause her to quit…but it turned out to be not just the guild. Another player created a character of the same name as a test and was allowed to do so, meaning she deleted her character completely. It seems 8 years of their friendship went out the window just like that.
The point of this is thus. After some talking, we came to the conclusion that anyone acting so destructively (throwing out a character with so much time invested) secretly is not enjoying the game and is looking for a reason to quit. Its possible that in any game, the true reason for a person to be overly disruptive is that they are unhappy about the game, even if they are not admitting it to themselves.